Transcript:

[0:00]

Jessica: Hello everyone, my name is Jessica and I’m a nutritionist with Mad Barn. I’m here today to bring another segment of The People Behind the Horses. This is a series where we talk with individuals who are helping to elevate the horse industry and bring about the next generation of growth.

[0:16]

Jessica: Today I am joined with Tik Maynard. Tik is a Canadian event rider who is well known for his holistic approach to horse training that emphasizes communication and understanding between horse and rider. He has also authored two books, including In the Middle Are the Horsemen, and his most recent book, Starting in the Middle. That’s right. He is also the world reigning champion for the colt-starting competition Road to the Horse, with two wins under his belt.

[0:45]

Jessica: I want to start off today by thanking you for being here with us and taking the time to chat. I’m really excited to learn more from you and about your methods. To start off — can you tell us: what is a horseman?

[1:01]

Tik: You know, that’s something, Jessica, that I’ve thought about a lot over the past ten years. As part of my curiosity about that, I’ve asked a lot of other people what they thought, and I’ve heard some great answers. I’ve heard it’s the habits and skills that, on a daily basis, make up how we interact with horses. Somebody else once told me it’s the ability to almost predict the future — where you’re not reacting to something happening, you’re staying ahead of it. You’re almost able to predict what’s going to happen, and then you stay out of danger, you stay out of trouble, you keep your horse in a happy, safe place, and you’re avoiding trouble.

[1:39]

Tik: One of the things I’ve thought a lot about with that question is: when I was growing up, I’d often hear, “This person’s a really good horseman, but they’re not necessarily good with people.” Sometimes you’d see that they’re good with horses but could be rude to clients, or aloof, or not that warm. And the big question I had for myself getting ready for Road to the Horse this year was — does being a good horseman include being a good person?

[2:02]

Tik: For me now, I’d say that’s the biggest shift in how I think about it. I think — like the word you used at the beginning, “holistic” — to be a good horseman really includes how you treat other people and how you treat yourself as well. If I see somebody that doesn’t have that, I might say they’re good with horses, or talented with horses, or skillful with horses, but I probably wouldn’t, in my mind, use the word “horseman.”

[2:24]

Jessica: That’s a really interesting idea to bring into that definition. Can you tell us a little more — what are the core principles of your training method that you bring to these horses?

[2:36]

Tik: I read a book a couple of years ago — a cookbook. I’m not a big chef myself, but the book is called Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat. Have you ever heard of it?

[2:46]

Jessica: I have not.

[2:48]

Tik: It’s written by a lady called Samin Nosrat. Her idea was: what if she could distill all good cooking down to four ingredients or four principles? She argues that whether you’re in Japan, Italy, India, or the United States, all good cooking involves one or more of those four things — salt, fat, acid, or heat.

[3:05]

Tik: As I was getting ready for Road to the Horse, I was thinking — what if I could distill my horse training principles down into four things? What I came up with, that I think about a lot as I work with horses, is:

• First: observation — observing ourselves, observing the horses, observing our surroundings.
• Second: communication — and not control, which can often become the focus for people. There are moments with a young horse or one you don’t know where control is important, but the more I think about communicating rather than controlling, the more I feel like I’m going in the right direction.
• Third: motivation — because just like dogs, kids, or people, horses can understand us but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll want to do what we want. So, what motivates them? Rest? Play? Curiosity? Harmony? What is it for this horse?
• Fourth: play — you can have all the other things, but play changes the work into something enjoyable. Work often feels like a drill or a chore; play has a lighter feeling. We try to find moments where the horse leaves the session fresh and ready for the next day.

[4:47]

Jessica: I love that idea. I have a young horse, so it’s fun to think about this. I’m definitely going to go work with him and look for those four moments — which is exciting.

[5:00]

Jessica: Anybody who has watched your journey with Road to the Horse or your videos knows you talk a lot about signs you’re looking for in the horse — whether it’s licking and chewing, or curiosity. Can you talk a bit more about why that’s important and what we should be looking for?

[5:19]

Tik: I was brought up in pony club, competing in jumpers, and then in my twenties getting into eventing. With a mature or competition horse, we’re often looking at the body — how they jump, their gaits, soundness, or whether they’re on the bit. But when I’m starting a horse, dealing with an emotional horse, or working with what someone calls a “troubled” or “problem” horse — in all those situations I’m hardly watching the body at all. Over 90% of my attention is on the horse’s eyes and expression.

[5:58]

Tik: It’s the eyes that tell me when a horse is curious. It’s the eyes that tell me when a horse is stressed. It’s the eyes that tell me when a horse is relaxed. It’s the eyes that tell me when a horse has a glazed-over expression. Even if a horse is going to kick, I can usually tell that’s going to happen quicker from watching the eyes than watching the legs — the eyes will usually give me more warning.

[6:26]

Tik: Mainly it’s the eyes, but also the expression — around the mouth, is it tight or not? Around the nostrils, how are they breathing? Around the ears — are they relaxed, forward, back, grumpy, concentrated? And with the eyes, most of the time what a horse is looking at is what they’re thinking about. That makes sense, right? Same with people — if we’re looking at each other, we’re probably thinking about what the other person is saying. If you’re sitting at dinner and somebody starts glancing away, they’re probably thinking about their phone or a text message. All it takes is to look at your phone for two seconds and your mind takes ten or fifteen or twenty seconds to come back to the conversation. It’s the same with horses — what they’re looking at is usually what they’re thinking about.

[7:09]

Tik: Sometimes I want them thinking about me, and sometimes I want them thinking about something else — like if I’m riding a jumping horse, I want them thinking about the jump. Watching their eyes gives me that feedback.

[7:19]

Jessica: That makes a lot of sense. Can you talk about who your influences are — who helped you learn these different intricacies with horses — or is it something you just picked up from experience?

[7:34]

Tik: No, I’ve had a lot of influences. Since I first started going down the road of learning more about what we call “horsemanship” — or “natural horsemanship” — one of my favorite ways to describe what I do is “horse psychology.” I’m trying to understand how horses think, how they learn, how they feel, and what motivates them. I probably started going down that road in about 2009. I got interested in Road to the Horse in about 2012. So for almost 15 years, I’ve spent a lot of time learning from many different people — some I might call mentors or coaches, and some I’ve just met in passing. I’ve also really delved deep into books on horse psychology. A lot of people from competitive backgrounds get more into books about making horses jump better or do dressage better — and I’ll read those books as well — but I’m more interested in figuring out how horses think. Those are the books I’m attracted to.

[8:38]

Tik: At the risk of leaving people out, I’ll tell you some I spent time with to get ready for Road to the Horse: Glenn Stewart from British Columbia — I spent a week with him both years starting horses. Jake Buribomb from Pearree Ranch — he lives just five miles down the road, so I spent quite a bit of time with him, almost every week. I went down to Argentina and spent time with Christo and Oscar Scarpati and their family. They have an amazing philosophy and such a warm way around horses — you know those people you meet where, even if they don’t say much, you just want to spend more time with them? That’s what their ranch is like — it has a great feeling.

[9:24]

Tik: Tom Pearson, a local reiner — I spent some time with him. I did a Martin Black clinic both years to get ready — he’s quite a well-known, almost legendary colt starter. Some people I’d like to have spent time with would be Wade Black, his son, and Chris Cox — another Road to the Horse winner. I also watched DVDs and previous years of the competition. And my pen wrangler, Nick Rivera — both years we started horses together to get in sync and be on the same page.

[10:00]

Jessica: Who would have thought you’d be a world traveler now, gathering all this information from people both locally and across the world. Let’s talk more about Road to the Horse — you’ve answered part of my first question, but was there any other preparation you did? Did you work horses here at your farm to get more tips and tricks? What else helped you prepare?

[10:24]

Tik: I did all those clinics to get ready, and I started some horses here. I’d say the most unusual thing I did was fly to Seattle for a four-and-a-half-day chicken camp.

[10:41]

Jessica: Oh wow. Have you ever heard of chicken camp? I have not.

[10:44]

Tik: So we go there and basically half the day is learning theory — how animals learn — and half the day is training chickens. Not literally half-and-half; you’ll spend half an hour with one, half an hour with the other, going back and forth so the chickens get breaks. The idea is that, if you think about what we most commonly train — dogs, horses, and people — those three are smart and motivated enough to make up for our mistakes. You don’t have to be a perfect teacher for them to learn.

[11:13]

Tik: A lot of people don’t know much about training when they get a dog from a shelter, but they end up fine. Same with horses — many people buy or lease a horse after a few months of riding and manage. When my wife Sinead and I had our first kid, Brooks, we realized neither of us had ever held a baby before. They just hand you the baby and send you home — you figure it out. You don’t have to be perfect to raise a good kid.

[12:32]

Tik: But chickens are different — they’re not smart or motivated enough to cover your mistakes. It’s almost like computer programming: if you put the wrong thing in, the computer won’t do what you hoped — it will do exactly what you told it. Chickens are more like that. Also, chickens usually don’t take things emotionally — they’re not thinking, “I hate you,” or “I’d rather do this.” They just do what you’ve trained them to do. We train them to do things like agility courses — up and down an A-frame, bending poles, through a tunnel, over a teeter-totter, stand on this, peck this but not that. It’s amazing how much you can train a chicken to do in four days.

[13:22]

Jessica: Wow, that’s impressive. I think my next trip to your farm, we should do chicken training.

[13:26]

Tik: I love it. It’s actually your next video — you’re going to train chickens.

[13:33]

Jessica: Okay, building on that — you just came off your second win at Road to the Horse. How did your approach or mindset differ from your first year to your second year — or was there a difference?

[13:45]

Tik: Yeah, I think the biggest — well, there are a few differences. Number one, working against you, is that coming into the second year, there’s a little more pressure.

[13:58]

Tik: You know, the first year I was a little bit of an underdog, at least in my mind. A lot of people in that world hadn’t heard of me or didn’t know what I was about. You’re coming in for the first time — there aren’t a lot of expectations, either from myself or others. You just go in to do the best job you can. The second year, the first thing people say is, “Are you going to defend your title?” and suddenly there’s an expectation or pressure, and that can really play tricks with your mind.

[14:25]

Tik: I had to constantly tell myself to approach it like the first year. It’s not about defending the title, it’s not about winning — it’s about focusing on the process and doing the best job I can.

[14:36]

Jessica: Doing best by the horse.

[14:39]

Tik: Exactly. I will say, that first year I did it, it was the hardest thing I’ve done in my life — the most out-of-my-comfort-zone thing I’ve ever done. I had adrenaline in my body for almost nine months. I probably had trouble sleeping for months leading up to it. I can’t imagine anything else I’ve done that compares in terms of nerves.

[15:10]

Tik: The second year, I was still nervous — probably the second most nerve-wracking thing I’ve done — but I’d say I was over 30% less nervous. That’s

a big difference. I slept better, I wasn’t as on-edge, I felt more relaxed and confident going in. I think that’s because I’d been through something so difficult and survived it. People say, “If you’re not living on the edge, you’re not living,” or, “Do something that scares you every day.” That first year gave me the chance to do something really hard and come out fine.

[15:49]

Jessica: I love that. Can you walk us through your thought process when selecting a horse? What characteristics are you looking for?

[15:56]

Tik: In this competition, it’s not like buying a jumper or eventer. You can’t touch the horses, you can’t handle them, and nobody else has handled them before. All you can do is watch a group of ten or twelve in a herd and decide which to pick — not just for the long term, but one that has the physical and mental fortitude for this format.

[16:28]

Tik: Leading up to it, I thought 10% would be based on bloodlines — I know very little about colt-starting bloodlines, so I relied on Nick, Jake, and others for advice. Another 10% would be on physical traits — uphill or downhill build, size, soundness, withers, that sort of thing. Another 10–20% would be behavioral — are they curious, pushy, shy, a leader, a follower, quick to kick? Even after that, I think 60–70% is pure luck. You can only tell so much before you start handling them.

[17:40]

Tik: To prove the point, both years I competed, there were four of us, and we drew for picking order. Both years I got fourth pick — and both years, the horse I picked ended up winning. If I’d had first pick, maybe it would have been different.

[18:09]

Jessica: That’s really interesting. I want to take a step back and talk about your books. Your new book — can you tell us what it means to “start in the middle”?

[18:20]

Tik: Credit goes to Rebecca, my editor and publisher at Trafalgar Books — she came up with the title. I had five or six others, but when she suggested it, we both loved it. She also designed the cover, which I love. The “middle” is a few things — in colt starting, I’m competing in my midlife. I’m 43 — not young in this world, not old either. There are people in their 20s and others in their 60s or 70s.

[19:06]

Tik: Also, with the horse, we’re stepping into their life maybe not in the middle, but three years in. They already have patterns, experiences, likes, dislikes, and we’re stepping in saying, “I want to be friends and train you,” which changes how they think about things. And with the book, I thought a lot about beginnings, middles, and ends — if you read it, you’ll see how that plays out. I hope people pick up a copy.

[19:50]

Jessica: We’re at your beautiful farm here in Florida — tell us about the team you’ve built.

[20:04]

Tik: We have a great team. The core is my wife, Sinead — she does way more than I do. She cares deeply about the horses’ physical and mental well-being, the staff, and creating a fun yet professional environment. We usually have 2–5 staff, most often 3–4. Lindsay has been with us over three years, which is rare on many farms, and she’s like family. We also have rotating working students from around the world.

[21:09]

Tik: The horses are the substance of the team — we have syndicates owning two for Sinead and two for me. Even after Road to the Horse, we’re motivated and competitive about continuing in eventing.

[21:43]

Jessica: What advice do you have for aspiring equestrians who look up to you?

[21:51]

Tik: Unless you come from a lot of money, get really good at learning by reading and watching. Don’t feel like you must spend money on lessons, clinics, or horses to improve. You can tell who sticks around to watch after a lesson — it’s rarer now. Same with reading — Karen O’Connor told me she asked a large clinic group what horse book they’d read recently, and got blank faces. Passionate horse people read about horses.

[23:06]

Tik: I also watch DVDs — especially on horse psychology, horsemanship, and Road to the Horse. I probably have over $10,000 worth if I’d paid retail. Now, you can stream or find things on YouTube — but the key is knowing what’s worth watching. With so much content, you need a mentor or knowledge to know what’s valuable.

[24:00]

Jessica: I love that — and others we’ve spoken to have said the same: be a lifelong learner, find mentors, and follow those worth learning from.

[24:27]

Jessica: Final question — what’s next for you? Goals? Outcomes?

[24:38]

Tik: After two intense years and finishing the second book, I’ve got Ocala International in two weeks with three horses. After that, I’ll probably step back for the summer — not from horses, but from competing and riding as much. I have clinics across the U.S. and Canada, but I want to spend more time with my wife and kids, maybe take a summer vacation, decompress, and then figure out the next goal for fall.

[25:29]

Jessica: I like that plan. I’m excited to see you at Ocala International. Thank you again for taking the time to chat. To everyone watching — I hope you learned a lot from Tik. Make sure you check out his books, resources, and upcoming clinics, and subscribe to our channel for the next episode of The People Behind the Horses.