Analyze Diet

Topic:Physiology

The physiology of horses encompasses the study of the biological functions and processes that occur within the equine body. This includes the examination of various systems such as the cardiovascular, respiratory, musculoskeletal, digestive, and nervous systems. Understanding equine physiology is essential for comprehending how horses adapt to different environmental conditions, perform physical activities, and respond to health challenges. Research in this field often focuses on the mechanisms of energy metabolism, thermoregulation, and muscle function during exercise, as well as the physiological responses to stress and disease. This page compiles peer-reviewed research studies and scholarly articles that explore the diverse aspects of equine physiology, providing insights into the biological processes that support the health and performance of horses.
In vitro effects of oxygen on physico-chemical properties of horse erythrocyte membrane.
Environmental toxicology and pharmacology    December 27, 2006   Volume 23, Issue 3 340-346 doi: 10.1016/j.etap.2006.12.002
Portier K, Guichardant M, Debouzy JC, Crouzier D, Geraud I, Kirschvink N, Lekeux P, Fellmann N, Coudert J.Whether direct exposure to different concentrations (0%, 13%, 100%) of oxygen may affect horse erythrocyte membrane fluidity (EMF) and fatty acid (FA) composition was studied during 1 (T60) and 2h (T120) exposure. EMF was investigated at the head group level and hydrophobic core thanks to phosphorus nucleus 31 ((31)P) nuclear magnetic resonance ((31)P NMR) and electronic paramagnetic resonance (EPR) using two spin probes: 5-nitroxydestearic acid and 16-doxylstearic acid. Lipid structure of the membranes was studied by gas liquid chromatography. 4-Hydroxy-2E-nonenal was also analyzed as a marke...
Lung surfactant function and composition in neonatal foals and adult horses.
Journal of veterinary internal medicine    December 26, 2006   Volume 20, Issue 6 1402-1407 doi: 10.1892/0891-6640(2006)20[1402:lsfaci]2.0.co;2
Christmann U, Livesey LC, Taintor JS, Waldridge BM, Schumacher J, Grier BL, Hite RD.Lung surfactant function and composition are varied and adapted to the specific respiratory physiology of all mammalian species. Objective: Lung surfactant function and composition are different in neonatal foals as compared to adult horses. Methods: Six adult horses, 7 term foals (<24 hours old), and 4 premature foals were used. Animals were part of the Auburn University teaching herd except for 3 client-owned premature foals. Methods: Bronchoalveolar lavage fluid (BALF) was obtained from all animals. Ultracentrifugation of cell-free BALF separated surfactant into crude surfactant pellets ...
The effects of feeding and fasting on gastrointestinal sounds in adult horses.
Journal of veterinary internal medicine    December 26, 2006   Volume 20, Issue 6 1408-1413 doi: 10.1892/0891-6640(2006)20[1408:teofaf]2.0.co;2
Naylor JM, Poirier KL, Hamilton DL, Dowling PM.The effect of changes in feed intake on auscultatable gastrointestinal sounds has not been systematically studied. Disagreement also is present in the literature about variation in sounds according to the quadrant of auscultation. Gastrointestinal sounds were recorded over the center of the left dorsal, left ventral, right ventral, and right dorsal quadrants and over the middle of the right abdominal flank. During 24 hours (n = 4) or 48 hours (n = 5) of fasting, there was a reduction in the intensity of gastrointestinal sounds as assessed by analysis of sound recordings. There was also a reduc...
Cardiovascular and pulmonary effects of hetastarch plus hypertonic saline solutions during experimental endotoxemia in anesthetized horses.
Journal of veterinary internal medicine    December 26, 2006   Volume 20, Issue 6 1422-1428 doi: 10.1892/0891-6640(2006)20[1422:capeoh]2.0.co;2
Pantaleon LG, Furr MO, McKenzie HC, Donaldson L.Small volume resuscitation has been advocated as a beneficial therapy for endotoxemia in horses but this therapy has not been investigated in a prospective manner. The objective of this study was to determine the cardiopulmonary effects of small-volume resuscitation using hypertonic saline solution (HSS) plus Hetastarch (HES) during experimental endotoxemia in anesthetized horses. Objective: Treatment of horses with induced endotoxemia using HES-HSS does not alter the response of various cardiopulmonary indices when compared to treatment with either small- or large-volume isotonic crystalloid ...
Investigation of a novel, heritable bleeding diathesis of Thoroughbred horses and development of a screening assay.
Journal of veterinary internal medicine    December 26, 2006   Volume 20, Issue 6 1450-1456 doi: 10.1892/0891-6640(2006)20[1450:ioanhb]2.0.co;2
Norris JW, Pratt SM, Auh JH, Wilson SJ, Clutter D, Magdesian KG, Ferraro GL, Tablin F.Bleeding in racing horses associated with exercise appears to be multifactorial, and clinical investigation into severe cases rarely occurs. Previously, we reported a severe bleeding diathesis in a Thoroughbred mare. Herein, we describe the cellular physiology of this defect, provide a diagnostic tool for identifying it, and demonstrate that the dysfunction is heritable. Objective: The subject has a heritable defect in platelet secretion that reduces thrombin generation in the absence of additional plasma factors and delays the onset of thrombin production even in the presence of these factors...
Vehicle effects on the in vitro penetration of testosterone through equine skin.
Veterinary research communications    December 26, 2006   Volume 31, Issue 2 227-233 doi: 10.1007/s11259-006-3446-6
Mills PC.The effects of three vehicles, phosphate-buffered saline (PBS), ethanol (50% in PBS w/w) and propylene glycol (50% in PBS w/w) on in vitro transdermal penetration of testosterone was investigated in the horse. Skin was harvested from the thorax of five Thoroughbred horses after euthanasia and stored at -20 degrees C until required. The skin was then defrosted and placed into Franz-type diffusion cells, which were maintained at approximately 32 degrees C by a water bath. Saturated solutions of testosterone, containing trace amounts of radiolabelled [14C]testosterone, in each vehicle were applie...
Serum lactoferrin and immunoglobulin G concentrations in healthy or ill neonatal foals and healthy adult horses.
Journal of veterinary internal medicine    December 26, 2006   Volume 20, Issue 6 1457-1462 doi: 10.1892/0891-6640(2006)20[1457:slaigc]2.0.co;2
Barton MH, Hurley D, Norton N, Heusner G, Costa L, Jones S, Byars D, Watanabe K.Lactoferrin is a colostral glycoprotein with antimicrobial properties. Objective: (1) Serum lactoferrin and immunoglobulin G (IgG) concentrations are correlated and increase in healthy foals after ingestion of colostrum; (2) compared to healthy foals, ill foals will have lower lactoferrin concentrations that correlate with their IgG concentration, neutrophil count, the diagnosis of sepsis, and survival; and (3) plasma concentrations of lactoferrin will be less than serum concentrations. Methods: Healthy foals (n = 16), mature horses (n = 10), and ill foals 1-4 days old (n = 111) that were exam...
Effect of exercise, training, circadian rhythm, age, and sex on insulin-like growth factor-1 in the horse.
Journal of animal science    December 21, 2006   Volume 85, Issue 1 163-171 doi: 10.2527/jas.2006-210
Noble GK, Houghton E, Roberts CJ, Faustino-Kemp J, de Kock SS, Swanepoel BC, Sillence MN.Insulin-like growth factor-1 could be a useful marker in the horse for diagnostic, selection, or forensic purposes, provided its physiological regulation is well understood. The objective of this study was to investigate factors, such as acute exercise, fitness training, time of day, sex, and age, that may influence serum IGF-1 in normal, healthy horses. Throughout a 9-wk training program, 6 geldings maintained a mean (+/- SEM) IGF-1 concentration of 302 +/- 29 ng/mL. Moderate or high intensity exercise had no effect on IGF-1 concentrations, when pre- and postexercise values were compared. Ove...
Measuring the height of ponies at the withers: influence of time of day, water and feed withdrawal, weight-carrying, exercise and sedation.
Veterinary journal (London, England : 1997)    December 19, 2006   Volume 174, Issue 1 69-76 doi: 10.1016/j.tvjl.2006.10.023
van de Pol C, Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan MM.Measuring the height at the withers of a pony is one of the requirements of the Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI), before competitors can participate in an official pony event. A pony has to be measured each year until it is eight years old. With and without shoes the height at the withers must be below 149.0cm and 148.0cm, respectively. When a pony exceeds the regulated height, it is excluded from participating in FEI pony competitions. Besides being excluded from competing, the selling price of the pony decreases dramatically, because the animal is then classified as a horse. For th...
Effects of coitus and the artificial insemination of different volumes of fresh semen on uterine contractions in mares.
The Veterinary record    December 19, 2006   Volume 159, Issue 25 843-849 
Campbell ML, England GC.Uterine contractions may play an important role in the transportation of spermatozoa towards the site of fertilisation in the oviduct of mares. M-mode ultrasound was used to measure the number, amplitude and duration of uterine contractions in each uterine horn and the uterine body of oestrous mares for four minutes before and four minutes after either coitus, or the artificial insemination of either 80.0 ml of fresh semen or 10.0 ml of fresh semen. The direction of the uterine contractions in each uterine horn and the uterine body was measured before and after coitus. Coitus and the inseminat...
Influence of exercise on thermographically determined surface temperatures of thoracic and pelvic limbs in horses.
Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association    December 19, 2006   Volume 229, Issue 12 1940-1944 doi: 10.2460/javma.229.12.1940
Simon EL, Gaughan EM, Epp T, Spire M.To determine the amount of time required for surface temperatures of thoracic and pelvic limbs in horses to return to pre-exercise temperatures after high-speed treadmill exercise, as detected via infrared thermographic imaging. Methods: Prospective study. Methods: 6 Thoroughbreds. Methods: All horses had been trained on and conditioned to use of a high-speed treadmill. Baseline thermographic images were obtained 3 days prior to exercise (baseline). Horses were exercised on a treadmill at a walk for 5 minutes, a slow trot (3 m/s) for 5 minutes, a trot (5 to 6 m/s) for 5 minutes, and a slow gal...
Variability of plasma melatonin level in pony mares (Equus caballus), comparison with the hybrid: mules and with jennies (Equus asinus).
Reproduction, nutrition, development    December 15, 2006   Volume 46, Issue 6 633-639 doi: 10.1051/rnd:2006043
Guillaume D, Zarazaga LA, Malpaux B, Chemineau P.In long-day breeders like horses, the length of nocturnal melatonin secretion is the main messenger of photoperiod. Previous studies have shown that the nocturnal jugular melatonin concentration is lower in horses, than in mules but is unknown in donkeys. The aim of this study was to estimate the inter-animal variability of plasma melatonin concentration in domestic mares and to compare this concentration with those observed in domestic jennies and in their hybrid mules. In the autumn, blood samples were collected at 22 h, 23 h, 0 h and 1 h during 2 nights at 3 weeks intervals, in 110 pony mar...
Segment-dependent expression of muscarinic acetylcholine receptors and G-protein coupling in the equine respiratory tract.
Veterinary research communications    December 15, 2006   Volume 31, Issue 2 207-226 doi: 10.1007/s11259-006-3396-z
Abraham G, Kottke C, Ammer H, Dhein S, Ungemach FR.Muscarinic receptors are considered to be of comparable clinical importance in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) in equines and in humans. At present, data are scarce on the expression and distribution of probable subtypes of these receptors and their signalling pathways in airway segments, including lung parenchyma and bronchial and tracheal epithelium with the underlying smooth muscle in horses. Specific [N-methyl-3H]scopolamine chloride ([3H]NMS) binding to all three tissues was saturable and of high affinity, with KD values ranging between 1.6+/-0.7 and 1.9+/-0.3 nmol/L. [3H]NMS...
Seasonal changes in ovarian activity: lessons learnt from the horse.
Animal reproduction science    December 15, 2006   Volume 100, Issue 3-4 225-242 doi: 10.1016/j.anireprosci.2006.12.001
Donadeu FX, Watson ED.The annual reproductive cycle in the horse involves a reduction in ovarian activity during short days. The absence of ovulatory activity during winter has important consequences for an equine industry eager to breed mares early during the year. The anovulatory season results from a reduction in the secretion of pituitary gonadotropin that is in turn triggered by the inhibitory effects of short photoperiod on the hypothalamus-pituitary axis. Recent studies have provided evidence that the response of the ovaries to endocrine stimuli during the anovulatory season is affected not only by circulati...
Acute systemic inflammation transiently synchronizes clock gene expression in equine peripheral blood.
Brain, behavior, and immunity    December 15, 2006   Volume 21, Issue 4 467-476 doi: 10.1016/j.bbi.2006.11.002
Murphy BA, Vick MM, Sessions DR, Cook RF, Fitzgerald BP.Peripheral clocks receive timing signals from the master mammalian pacemaker in the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) and function to adaptively anticipate daily changes that influence local physiology. Evidence suggests that peripheral immune activation may act as a resetting signal for circadian clocks in peripheral tissues. We wished to investigate whether acute systemic inflammation could synchronize clock gene expression in equine peripheral blood, a tissue that does not normally oscillate in this species. We report that in vivo administration of lipopolysaccharide (LPS) results in significan...
Novel findings regarding Glut-4 expression in adipose tissue and muscle in horses–a preliminary report.
Veterinary journal (London, England : 1997)    December 14, 2006   Volume 174, Issue 3 565-569 doi: 10.1016/j.tvjl.2006.10.022
Manso Filho HC, McKeever KH, Gordon ME, Costa HE, Watford M.One of the hallmarks of insulin resistance is a reduction in glucose transporter-4 (Glut-4) expression in adipose tissue but not in skeletal muscle. However, while Glut-4 has been demonstrated in skeletal and cardiac muscles in horses it has not been demonstrated in adipose tissue. The initial objectives of the present study were: (1) to test the hypothesis that Glut-4 expression would vary between selected key skeletal muscles; (2) to test the hypothesis that it would also vary between representative adipose tissue depots, and (3) to see whether expression would be greater in adipose tissue c...
Physiological death of hypertrophic chondrocytes.
Osteoarthritis and cartilage    December 13, 2006   Volume 15, Issue 5 575-586 doi: 10.1016/j.joca.2006.10.016
Ahmed YA, Tatarczuch L, Pagel CN, Davies HM, Mirams M, Mackie EJ.Post-proliferative chondrocytes in growth cartilage are present in two forms, light and dark cells. These cells undergo hypertrophy and die by a mechanism that is morphologically distinct from apoptosis, but has not been characterized. The aims of the current study were to document the ultrastructural appearance of dying hypertrophic chondrocytes, and to establish a culture system in which the mechanism of their death can be examined. Methods: Growth cartilage from fetal and growing postnatal horses was examined by electron microscopy. Chondrocytes were isolated from epiphyseal cartilage from ...
Defining cytochemical markers for different cell types in the equine retina.
Anatomia, histologia, embryologia    December 13, 2006   Volume 35, Issue 6 412-415 doi: 10.1111/j.1439-0264.2006.00722.x
Deeg CA, Amann B, Hauck SM, Kaspers B.The major cell types in the mammalian retina are photoreceptors, amacrine, horizontal, bipolar, ganglion and Mueller glial cells. Most of the specific cell types are conserved, but cytochemical markers vary between species. The aim of our study was to characterize cytochemically distinctive markers for different cell types in the equine retina. We were able to define specific markers for equine Mueller glial cells and photoreceptor cells. Furthermore, we describe markers for large ganglion cells, horizontal and amacrine cells and a subpopulation of bipolar cells. Additionally, discrimination b...
The advent of equitation science.
Veterinary journal (London, England : 1997)    December 8, 2006   Volume 174, Issue 3 492-500 doi: 10.1016/j.tvjl.2006.09.008
McGreevy PD.The lengthy association of humans with horses has established traditional equestrian techniques that have served military and transport needs well. Although effective, these techniques have by-passed the research findings of modern psychologists, who developed the fundamentals of learning theory. That said, the pools of equestrian debate are far from stagnant. The latest wave of horse whisperers has offered some refinements and some novel interpretations of the motivation of horses undergoing training. Additionally, the Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) has introduced the concept of t...
Guttural pouches, brain temperature and exercise in horses.
Biology letters    December 7, 2006   Volume 2, Issue 3 475-477 doi: 10.1098/rsbl.2006.0469
Mitchell G, Fuller A, Maloney SK, Rump N, Mitchell D.Selective brain cooling (SBC) is defined as the lowering of brain temperature below arterial blood temperature. Artiodactyls employ a carotid rete, an anatomical heat exchanger, to cool arterial blood shortly before it enters the brain. The survival advantage of this anatomy traditionally is believed to be a protection of brain tissue from heat injury, especially during exercise. Perissodactyls such as horses do not possess a carotid rete, and it has been proposed that their guttural pouches serve the heat-exchange function of the carotid rete by cooling the blood that traverses them, thus pro...
Role of cholecystokinin in the gastric motor response to a meal in horses.
American journal of veterinary research    December 6, 2006   Volume 67, Issue 12 1998-2005 doi: 10.2460/ajvr.67.12.1998
Lorenzo-Figueras M, Merritt AM.To measure plasma cholecystokinin (CCK) activity and the effect of a CCK-1 receptor antagonist on accommodation of the proximal portion of the stomach, and subsequent gastric emptying, in horses after ingestion of high-fat or high-carbohydrate meals. Methods: 6 healthy adult horses with gastric cannulas. Methods: In the first study, horses were offered a high-fat (8% fat) or a high-carbohydrate (3% fat) pelleted meal of identical volume, caloric density, and protein content. Related plasma CCK-like activity was measured by radioimmunoassay (RIA). In a separate experiment, a horse was fed a gra...
Comparison of intraoperative pain responses following intratesticular or mesorchial injection of lidocaine in standing horses undergoing laparoscopic cryptorchidectomy.
Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association    December 6, 2006   Volume 229, Issue 11 1779-1783 doi: 10.2460/javma.229.11.1779
Joyce J, Hendrickson DA.To compare pain responses in stallions undergoing standing laparoscopic cryptorchidectomy following intratesticular or mesorchial infiltration of lidocaine. Methods: Clinical trial. Methods: 20 stallions with 1 or 2 undescended testes. Methods: Standing horses were administered a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug and a caudal epidural injection of detomidine hydrochloride and underwent laparoscopic cryptorchidectomy. The undescended testis (1/horse) was grasped to determine the preoperative pain response (present vs absent) and assess severity of pain (by use of a visual analog scale [VAS])....
Evaluation of changes in architecture of the stratum internum of the hoof wall from fetal, newborn, and yearling horses.
American journal of veterinary research    December 6, 2006   Volume 67, Issue 12 1947-1955 doi: 10.2460/ajvr.67.12.1947
Bidwell LA, Bowker RM.To evaluate morphologic changes of the stratum internum of hooves from near-term fetal, newborn, and yearling horses. Methods: Feet from 27 near-term equine fetuses, 19 newborn foals, and 8 yearlings. Methods: Primary epidermal laminae (PEL) of the stratum internum were examined for evidence of architectural changes. Results: In near-term fetuses, the PEL had a homogeneous appearance and symmetric distribution around the hoof wall with no significant differences in PEL density between the toe and quarters. However after birth, branched laminae at the toe formed within the first few weeks, whic...
Effects of sodium hyaluronate and methylprednisolone acetate on proteoglycan metabolism in equine articular chondrocytes treated with interleukin-1.
American journal of veterinary research    December 6, 2006   Volume 67, Issue 12 1980-1986 doi: 10.2460/ajvr.67.12.1980
Yates AC, Stewart AA, Byron CR, Pondenis HC, Kaufmann KM, Constable PD.To determine the effects of sodium hyaluronate (HA) in combination with methylprednisolone acetate (MPA) on interleukin-1 (IL-1)-induced inflammation in equine articular cartilage pellets. Methods: Chondrocytes collected from 7 horses euthanatized for problems unrelated to the musculoskeletal system. Methods: Chondrocyte pellets were treated with medium (negative control); medium containing IL-1 (positive control); or medium containing IL-1 with MPA only (0.05 or 0.5 mg/mL), HA only (0.2 or 2 mg/mL), or MPA (0.05 or 0.5 mg/mL) and HA (0.2 or 2 mg/mL) in combination. Proteoglycan (PG) synthesis...
Hoof trimming in horses.
The Veterinary record    December 5, 2006   Volume 159, Issue 23 787 
House C.No abstract available
The blood vessel system in the periodontal ligament of the equine cheek teeth–part I: The spatial arrangement in layers.
Annals of anatomy = Anatomischer Anzeiger : official organ of the Anatomische Gesellschaft    December 5, 2006   Volume 188, Issue 6 529-533 doi: 10.1016/j.aanat.2006.06.010
Masset A, Staszyk C, Gasse H.Corrosion casts of blood vessels in the periodontium of cheek teeth from eight horses were observed three-dimensionally with a dissection microscope. Selected specimens were examined in a scanning electron microscope. Periodontal blood vessels communicated with those from the gingiva, the alveolar bone, and the apical region. In the upper jaw, there were anastomoses with the blood vessels of the mucosa of the maxillary sinus. The periodontal vascular system was organized in two or three layers. The peripheral layer was mainly composed of large venules, the inner one consisted of capillaries. I...
The blood vessel system in the periodontal ligament of the equine cheek teeth–part II: The micro-architecture and its functional implications in a constantly remodelling system.
Annals of anatomy = Anatomischer Anzeiger : official organ of the Anatomische Gesellschaft    December 5, 2006   Volume 188, Issue 6 535-539 doi: 10.1016/j.aanat.2006.06.007
Masset A, Staszyk C, Gasse H.The micro-vasculature of the equine periodontal ligament (PDL) was investigated using corrosion casts for scanning electron microscopy. Specimens from eight healthy warm-blooded horses were examined. Specific vascular features such as large ampullae with a diameter of up to 300 microm and blind vascular casts were found in the specimens of the equine PDL. The ampullae-shaped venules occurred only in the peripheral layer, where they were formed at the confluence of several vessels. Two types of blind stumps were identified. The first was developed in all three layers, while the second was found...
Influence of bacteria and gentamicin on cooled-stored stallion spermatozoa.
Theriogenology    December 1, 2006   Volume 67, Issue 5 912-918 doi: 10.1016/j.theriogenology.2006.11.004
Aurich C, Spergser J.This study investigated effects of bacteria from the genital tract of horses and the effect of gentamicin in semen extender on spermatozoal function in cooled-stored stallion semen. Semen was collected from healthy stallions and processed with a milk-based extender with or without gentamicin (1g/l). Pseudomonas (Ps.) aeruginosa, Staphylococcus (St.) aureus, Streptococcus (Sc.) equi subsp. equi (Sc. equi), Sc. equi subsp. zooepidemicus (Sc. zooepidemicus), Sc. dysgalactiae subsp. equisimilis (Sc. equisimilis) or culture medium alone (control) were added. Immediately after addition of bacteria a...
Studies related to the origin of C18 neutral steroids isolated from extracts of urine from the male horse: the identification of urinary 19-oic acids and their decarboxylation to produce estr-4-en-17beta-ol-3-one (19-nortestosterone) and estr-4-ene-3,17-dione (19-norandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione) during sample processing.
Analytica chimica acta    December 1, 2006   Volume 586, Issue 1-2 196-207 doi: 10.1016/j.aca.2006.11.059
Houghton E, Teale P, Dumasia MC.For almost two decades we have known that enzymatic hydrolysis of "normal" urine samples from the entire male horse using Escherichia coli (E. coli) followed by solvolysis (ethyl acetate:methanol:sulphuric acid) results in the detection of significant amounts of estr-4-ene-3,17-dione (19-norandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione) along with estr-4-en-17beta-ol-3-one (19-nortestosterone, nandrolone) in extracts of the hydrolysed urine and that both steroids are isolated from the solvolysis fraction. This solvolysis process is targeted at the steroid sulphates. Also we have shown that 19-norandrost-4-ene-3,17...
Proline scanning mutagenesis reveals non-native fold in the molten globule state of equine beta-lactoglobulin.
Biochemistry    December 1, 2006   Volume 45, Issue 51 15468-15473 doi: 10.1021/bi061420p
Nakagawa K, Tokushima A, Fujiwara K, Ikeguchi M.The secondary structure in the molten globule state (an equilibrium analogue of a burst-phase folding intermediate) of equine beta-lactoglobulin was investigated by changes in the circular dichroic spectrum induced by a series of site-directed proline substitutions. The results challenge the structural picture obtained from previous hydrogen/deuterium exchange experiments. A stable non-native alpha-helix was found to exist in the region corresponding to the eighth strand (H strand) in the native structure, where the backbone amide protons are the most strongly protected from exchange. Therefor...